Max Heart Rate, training zones Options

[squeeler]

Sorry to bore you with some of my stats but I have a question that I hope some of you may be able to help with:

Background info:
I am training for doing the C2C at the start of June.
220 minus 32 (my age) gives me a max heart rate of 188
training for fat burning should be at Moderate intensity 70-80% of max heart rate ie 132-150
I rode for 1hr 45mins at the weekend with an average rate of 153 bpm

All my information on training and fitness comes from what I've read in really informative threads on this and mtbr.com forums. From the little I know these stats suggest that I was trying too hard, is that correct?

Now if I throw in the stat that after a 40minute squash game this evening my average rate was 169 but I peaked at 197bpm what does this mean. Should I calculate my max heart rate at 197bpm and therefore my weekend ride did in fact put me right in the fat burning training zone I am after? or should I reduce my effort a bit on training rides?

[Speedy Al]

i would say the coast to coast ride is low intensity high duration riding (estimate 130 miles), so throw the heart rate monitor out the window and do some long, long rides as Mr steady Eddy to build stamina.

when you can do a six hour ride easily then think about building the pace.

[Rockymtnway]

Not far from Al's perspective, build stamina first, then worry about speed.

Formulas to figure out maximum heart rate are made based on statistical averages. Humans vary a great deal, so stick with the numbers that have proven themselves in your own testing. Figure a max HR of 197. However, your "fat burning zone" is utter shitte, quoted at 70-80% of max HR. If you truly want to burn fat as your body's preferred fuel, that would be between 50-65% of VO2 max (not max HR). However, I'd assume that's not your only goal. If you goal is to finish in the best time possible, then you need to start base building for a minimum of 12 weeks. That means spending 50-70% of your time with your HR between 60-70% of max, with minimal incursions above 80% of max HR.

That's way slower than you think you should be riding. Odds are you'll ignore this advice at your peril and train at too high of intensity to get any meaningful long-term improvement to your endurance base, as most people just don't believe that it's going slow that makes you fast, but that's my advice. I trained too hard for two years before learning this lesson and got nowhere in my relentless pursuit of improving personal bests. Then I listened to my sports physiologist, slowed down, and placed myself in the top of the expert ranks with one proper winter of training.

[squeeler]

OK you recommend I reduce my effort slightly for the next 12 weeks in combination with spending longer on the bike. I'm fine with trying that. I presume that although my effort is reduced my fitness will improve and I will actually be riding faster after 12 weeks for the same effort?

My plan is to commute 3-4 days a week (30 mins each way) with maybe once a week taking a long route home for 1hr or so and one weekend ride of 2-3 hours. That would total a minimum of 5 hrs a week on the bike though more likely 7 or 8. Plus a couple of 40 minute games of squash a week.

Is this realistically enough training to tackle the 140 mile coast to coast ride in 3 days especially taking all the off road options on the Sustrans route? The longest I've spent in the saddle to date in one stint is just over 2 hours and I was knackered.

[Speedy Al]

thats 46.6 miles a day, i reckon yourl crack it easily with this training, thought you were going for the whole lot in one go

[squeeler]

Not likely! 46.6 miles a day uphill is plenty for me to be getting on with for now especially as the first two days are predominantly up hill, but at least the third day should be mostly coasting downhill to Sunderland.

[Rockymtnway]

What riding at 60-70% of max hr does is promote new capillary growth in the muscle tissue, encourage the production of larger mitochondria in the muscles, and the production of more enzymes to convert fats to energy. All of that makes longer sustained efforts easier. After 8-12 weeks of base, then you can easily pick up the tempo (doing 60 minute rides sustained in zone 3 (70-80%) and 20 minute efforts in Threshold (80-85%)) at a whole new level because your muscles will be more efficient. If you just focus on speed and intensity early, you just encourage your anaerobic system to get stronger and do nothing for your endurance.

I suggest getting in as many 2+ hour days in the saddle as you can, but still give yourself one to two rest days a week and taking an easy week every fourth week to recover (cut your hours of training in half for a week after three hard weeks in a row). After 6-8 weeks, try doing some 4-5 hour rides just to get used to that many hours in the saddle. Make sure to rest the week before the event and you should be primed for a great event.

Best of luck!

[Geoffmbr1]

As there are many differing C2C routes which is your planned route?.
As a seasoned coast to coaster, Tim Cooks route St bee to robin hoods bay via the lake district. The last day was not as you say all down hill , there were quite a lot of uphills with 25%er in abundance , Poor Angie ended up in tears as she had also been told don't worry the last day is all downhill.

The C2C is more about bieng able to keep up a consistant level all day 46-50mile off road in the lakes is not like a 50 mile evening road ride . Get some long long steady days in the saddle under your belt thats more the style you'll need

[squeeler]

As there are many differing C2C routes which is your planned route?.
As a seasoned coast to coaster, Tim Cooks route St bee to robin hoods bay via the lake district. The last day was not as you say all down hill , there were quite a lot of uphills with 25%er in abundance , Poor Angie ended up in tears as she had also been told don't worry the last day is all downhill.

The C2C is more about bieng able to keep up a consistant level all day 46-50mile off road in the lakes is not like a 50 mile evening road ride . Get some long long steady days in the saddle under your belt thats more the style you'll need

Is that route you mentioned posted on the internet anywhere? For this trip there are a few of us going all with no experience of this sort of thing and we plan to use the sustrans C2C route from Whitehaven to Sunderland taking all the off road options listed.

Having never spent more than a couple of hours on a bike is my major worry as I am usually exhausted after that with achy wrists and lower back from about an hour and a half in ( as shorter stem maybe worth trying?). The pace I ride at seems comfortable when I'm doing it but looking at the above posts I need to try to reduce my effort and have a go at staying out longer.

[*Neb*]

Is that route you mentioned posted on the internet anywhere? For this trip there are a few of us going all with no experience of this sort of thing and we plan to use the sustrans C2C route from Whitehaven to Sunderland taking all the off road options listed.

Having never spent more than a couple of hours on a bike is my major worry as I am usually exhausted after that with achy wrists and lower back from about an hour and a half in ( as shorter stem maybe worth trying?). The pace I ride at seems comfortable when I'm doing it but looking at the above posts I need to try to reduce my effort and have a go at staying out longer.

I've done the C2C a few times and its a good laugh. The first day is pretty much my local stomping ground, so I know it fairly well. If you start in whitehaven, its pretty much flat for the first 20 miles, then a medium / hard hill (whinlatter) for lunch at Keswick then its a bit of a pedal to penrith as its a bit undulating (I think I had a strop around mungrisdale..!)

Second day mainly consists of hills. Hartside then another 2? hills to the next stop. The distance is much shorter but obviously it feels harder partly due to the hills, partly due to the previous day!

Third day starts with a big climb and ends downhill / flat into newcastle/sunderland. really good fun!

Your route would be slightly different depending on where you spend the nights. but its definately doable. I did it after only owning a bike for 1 week (did 10 miles when I first got it) Hurt like hell on the bum though! There is plenty of time each day to do it, so I would follow the advice of the other lads in that its not the speed that matters its being able to sit in the saddle for 7-8 hours that does it. We went fairly slowly and still had 4 hours of daylight left at the end of each day that we could have used if we were struggling.

My girlfriend did the C2C on her road bike in 8 hours, so it is possible to do it faster if you really really want to....!

[Speedy Al]

thats 17.5 mph average down tracks! thats one fit lass

[*Neb*]

thats 17.5 mph average down tracks! thats one fit lass

She 'cheated' a wee bit, they went via a northern route next to hadrians wall, it cuts out the lakes and the pennines, so its a bit flatter! (and on road!) Although I think its a bit longer to make up for it. Still, she kicks my bum when we go out!

[squeeler]

Thanks for that good info Neb, much more useful to me than looking at distance on a map and guessing how difficult it's going to be.

[Geoffmbr1]

cannot find our route in internet . We got the book from a library ( that's a big public building with books in it )

The route took us a total of 240 miles (including getting lost a couple of times) and a part from a short section near richmond was all done on legal brileways/offroad

[Rockymtnway]

Having never spent more than a couple of hours on a bike is my major worry as I am usually exhausted after that with achy wrists and lower back from about an hour and a half in ( as shorter stem maybe worth trying?). The pace I ride at seems comfortable when I'm doing it but looking at the above posts I need to try to reduce my effort and have a go at staying out longer.

If you're having problems staying comfortable on the bike right now for over an hour, that's a serious problem. Things don't even start to get bad until you're five hours in, IMHO, that's when everyone starts to suffer. Days 2 & 3 will be be miserable at best if you don't modify your ergonomics and bike fit. I'd recommend a proper bike fit by a trained professional. If you still have problems, you just might have to accept getting a bit more experience under your belt before this undertaking. There's no point in creating overuse injuries for a recreational event.

I'm not so worried about your fatigue after the ride, that's a part of getting fit. It's the achy wrists and back that are the concerns. Resolve these problems before ramping up your hours on the bike or you're asking for trouble.

[1gearnoidea]

im a ranger on the trans pennine trail, and only started riding last year at 40 yrs of age, been thinking about doing the c2c, on the tpt' thats southport to hull 200 miles or so , so far ive managed 50 miles in roughly 4-5 hours on the trail, i aint a fitness freak..so anythings possible, im sure this summer if i dont suffer too much with my current medical issues, then 75-100 miles is possible in daylight hours ...if anyone fancies the challenge drop me a pm

[squeeler]

I'm not so worried about your fatigue after the ride, that's a part of getting fit. It's the achy wrists and back that are the concerns. Resolve these problems before ramping up your hours on the bike or you're asking for trouble.

That's got me worried, I've sort of thought that was just getting used to being in that postion for an extended length of time. Since I got my new bike I've only managed to spend one morning of proper off road at Gisburn forest combined climbing and descending on singletrack without any problem other than slightly achey shoulders and a slightly stiff back at the end of it, over all I felt it was very comfortable. However the long (i.e. 2 hr) training rides I've started doing on road is when I've started to suffer lower back and wrist ache, quite badly towards the end.

I think I'll give it another 5 or 6 long road rides at lower intensity as recommended by Rockymtnway and if the aches have not improved I will try a shorter stem with more rise.

lee67 even your 50 miles in a day is beyond my expectations at the moment, but after doing the C2C and by the end of summer I intend to be able to start attempting some of the rides talked about in this forum!

[1gearnoidea]

take heart from the fact, that only 14 months ago i was an unfit 40 yr old, started doing 1 mile rides, then 5..onto 10 miles etc....have done 50 easier miles rides and alot of 30 mile off road miles..even 40 mile gruellers''.as its been said before build yourself up and you too will be knocking those miles out, theres loads of lads and ladies on here that put me to shame...its all practice practice practice...i myslef have had a couple of nightmare rides in the last week...after having a 4 week layoff(torn ligaments)..but this week alone i,ll have racked up maybe 50-60 off road miles , and thats feeling slightly underpar

[Rockymtnway]

Also be aware that staying in one position on a bike can cause its own problems. That's why road bars have so many positions to rest your hands. For your longer distances, it may well be worth investing in some bar ends to give you different postions to switch to. I've also heard some positive things about Ergon grips, but don't use them myself. Keep moving on the bike. Every 15-20 minutes make sure you look up, down, over each shoulder, twist your shoulders from side to side, shimmy your low back, etc. You want to keep bloodflow going to your discs in your back as well as your legs. Staying in one position too long risks restricted bloodflow to your discs, dehydration of the discs, and aches and pains when you get to be my age.

[Speedy Al]

Lee check your mail