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> sealant in tubes(silly question time)
phipsy
post Mar 5 2014, 07:41 AM
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From: winchester



right guys and girls
im fed up with getting punctures as the farmers have cut the hedges again!
not sure if I want to go tubeless SO!!
can I run tubeless sealant in tubes?, would this have the same affect or am I missing something obvious

thanks
Phipsy


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Mick
post Mar 5 2014, 08:29 AM
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From: Shrewsbury



QUOTE(phipsy @ Mar 5 2014, 07:41 AM) *
right guys and girls
im fed up with getting punctures as the farmers have cut the hedges again!
not sure if I want to go tubeless SO!!
can I run tubeless sealant in tubes?, would this have the same affect or am I missing something obvious

thanks
Phipsy


Halfords do something called "Halfords Tube Seal" which looks like what you want, I've never tried it though. Tubeless really is the way to go!


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phipsy
post Mar 5 2014, 06:45 PM
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From: winchester



QUOTE(Mick @ Mar 5 2014, 08:29 AM) *
Halfords do something called "Halfords Tube Seal" which looks like what you want, I've never tried it though. Tubeless really is the way to go!


cheers mick
why is tubeless better than tube with sealant in?
cheers for any help


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Weak Knees
post Mar 5 2014, 08:59 PM
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I've put Stans sealant in my tubes....works great

I had removable valve cores so just used a syringe to insert the sealant but if you don't have them just make a tiny hole in the tube and then insert the sealant and stick a patch on the hole you have made


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Doug
post Mar 6 2014, 12:59 AM
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From: Wrexham, N.E.Wales.



QUOTE(phipsy @ Mar 5 2014, 06:45 PM) *
why is tubeless better than tube with sealant in?

Weight and pinchflats.

The pinchflat in the tube on the rim/inside wont seal as quick as one on the outside/next to the tyre which has sealant sloshing over it all the time so you'll loose more air. Also glass or a larger thorn embedded in the tyre will puncture the tube. It may seal but every time the wheel rotates the deformation of the tyre will rub the offending sharp object against the tube increasing the size of the hole. This isnt a problem with full tubeless as stuff tends not to move in relation to the tyre once stuck. Larger punctures on full tubeless can also be fixed without taking the tyre off and usually without loosing all tyre pressure if using sealant. Try fixing a tube covered in sealant sad.gif


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phipsy
post Mar 6 2014, 07:31 AM
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QUOTE(Doug @ Mar 6 2014, 12:59 AM) *
Weight and pinchflats.

The pinchflat in the tube on the rim/inside wont seal as quick as one on the outside/next to the tyre which has sealant sloshing over it all the time so you'll loose more air. Also glass or a larger thorn embedded in the tyre will puncture the tube. It may seal but every time the wheel rotates the deformation of the tyre will rub the offending sharp object against the tube increasing the size of the hole. This isnt a problem with full tubeless as stuff tends not to move in relation to the tyre once stuck. Larger punctures on full tubeless can also be fixed without taking the tyre off and usually without loosing all tyre pressure if using sealant. Try fixing a tube covered in sealant sad.gif


thanks doug!
that explains a lot, looks like im going to have to bite the bulliet and go tubeless then


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Kerr
post Mar 6 2014, 09:07 AM
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I run tubes with stans in on my non tubless rimmed bikes.
This is excellent, but the cavert is when you do puncture and replace the tube, the stans will leak out in your backpack.

I run tubeless on my 29er and never had a puncture on that. That's the bontranger system.
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phipsy
post Mar 6 2014, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE(Kerr @ Mar 6 2014, 09:07 AM) *
I run tubes with stans in on my non tubless rimmed bikes.
This is excellent, but the cavert is when you do puncture and replace the tube, the stans will leak out in your backpack.

I run tubeless on my 29er and never had a puncture on that. That's the bontranger system.


thanks kerr, think tubeless is the way to go as long as I cant sort it rolleyes.gif


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Rod
post Mar 10 2014, 10:14 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQX3CciWsSg

This and many other videos to tell you how to go "Ghetto"... make "normal" wheels in to tubeless.

About 10 mins a wheel but in my experience you need a compressed air supply from a compressor or... a dive bottle whistling.gif

Good luck.

Rod

incidentally, I have had as many punctures as I have had tubeless failures... 3 of each.

The major difference is with a tubed tyre its a straight forward quick clean job to swap a tube out. When running Ghetto on each occasion I have had to put a tube in whilst on the trail as I couldn't pump the tyre up without one and doing this is VERY messy.

Rod


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phipsy
post Mar 11 2014, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE(Rod @ Mar 10 2014, 10:14 PM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQX3CciWsSg

This and many other videos to tell you how to go "Ghetto"... make "normal" wheels in to tubeless.

About 10 mins a wheel but in my experience you need a compressed air supply from a compressor or... a dive bottle whistling.gif

Good luck.

Rod

incidentally, I have had as many punctures as I have had tubeless failures... 3 of each.

The major difference is with a tubed tyre its a straight forward quick clean job to swap a tube out. When running Ghetto on each occasion I have had to put a tube in whilst on the trail as I couldn't pump the tyre up without one and doing this is VERY messy.

Rod


thanks for chucking a spannere in the works rod
thought I was gunna go tubeless and never have a puncture again lol


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Doug
post Mar 12 2014, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE
The major difference is with a tubed tyre its a straight forward quick clean job to swap a tube out. When running Ghetto on each occasion I have had to put a tube in whilst on the trail as I couldn't pump the tyre up without one and doing this is VERY messy.


You not got one of these then Rod? Exactly what you need when the hole is too big for the solution to seal.



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Rod
post Mar 12 2014, 11:04 PM
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the "punctures" I had were 2x "burps" (tyre coming off the rim) and 1 x "v" shaped cut about 10mm in length in the side wall.

Even on the Burped tyres I could not re-seat the tyres to the rim and pump 'em back up. As for the cut, it would have needed an internal patch and a clean dry tyre to fix that little bugger.

For me the issue on the trail is re-inflation. Since the burps I increased the tyre pressures to around 32 - 36 psi and no more burps + tyres roll better.

Also when using standard tyres and going ghetto I find some tyres degrade with threads coming out of the side walls and on one (Werewolf WTB) the tread came away after a few months much to the mirth of my fellow cyclists when 3 duck egg-sized lumps appeared before our eyes. Fortunately this happened whilst arsing about in the car park.

So whilst ghetto has advantages in that it seals small punctures it also has draw-backs.
To me it comes down to 2 things... where and how you ride.

If you ride a lot of tracks or trails where there is a likelihood of thorns - I'd use them.
If you ride rocky areas and hit corners hard I wouldn't for two reasons... standard tyre walls lack structural rigidity and roll over and flex too much for my liking. The second is that again due to standard tyres construction and the tendency to run the tyres at a slightly lower pressure (which is what I'm told most people do or that is the intention, to gain more grip?????) you totally #### your rims up!


Well that's my tuppence worth. Incidentally I run one bike as Ghetto ( with small block 8s) and the others on tubes.

So as you can see when using standard tyres I'm not all together sold on the idea.

(has anyone actually weighed a wheel set like for like when changing from tubes.... I can't see Ghettos weighing less)


Rod


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1gearnoidea
post Mar 13 2014, 06:27 PM
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I ran ghetto back in 08.. Works great in theory , until I had a big blowout at top of nan bield....a lot of fafffing and swearing, with milk everywhere..toothpaste tubes to block the big tear..and one tube I was sorted...hav'nt touched tubeless since..but lately I've had puncture fests, and I'm considering tubeless again..


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Gareth
post Mar 13 2014, 08:23 PM
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Tubeless woes come from a number of issues which relate to the setup and the way you ride. For example if you just chuck the tubes out of your existing style of tyre you have got rid of a lot of rubber! This really should have been added to the tyre which gives improved strength and puncture resistance. Tubeless ready tyres have this rubber usefully distributed so they are usually a better option unless you're looking for one race performance.

In addition some tyre/rim combinations are not well suited to tubeless conversion and loose air (burp) rather easily. Making sure you have sufficient pressure for your system is essential, a compatible tubeless ready tyre and tubeless rim strip or rim desirable. In general removing the internal support of an inflated inner tube means you have to increase pressure to compensate but you should not lose performance or grip the reverse usually proves true.

Tubeless conversions are usually worth the hassle but some will never get on with them in the same way they may never build their own wheels or service forks etc. The greatest benefits come to those who persevere and make smart setup choices. duel.gif

Properly setup systems matched in weight and pressure to the way you ride really will give you improved puncture resistance and rolling resistance at the same time.


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Doug
post Mar 16 2014, 09:14 AM
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Inflate.

Refills.


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Suggsey
post Mar 17 2014, 06:45 PM
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From: Nuneaton



And alas as I found out at Antur Stiniog this weekend even a good UST rim and 43 of brand spanking new Nobby Nic 2.4 UST tyre will not stop welsh slate slicing a sidewall! Only went through outer rubber of sidewall vertically but took one layer of threads out enough for it to start bulging! At least it was second from last run of the day so only risked one more blast down. I tried to cobble it back together with an external patch but it bulged straight away on re inflation so just rolled my eyes and ordered another new tyre........and a new rear mech as I bent mine badly on run three earlier in the day and had to straighten it by brute force as the shop don't carry spare mechs.
Still doesn't put me off tubeless, I have torn the sidewall of a minnion double ply onn Jacobs ladder before now running tubes.......
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