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> Ghetto Tubeless Checklist
*Neb*
post Feb 7 2008, 02:31 PM
Post #21


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QUOTE(Tony F @ Feb 7 2008, 01:34 PM) *
No. Rim tape (of whatever type - I used electrician's PVC tape) first, then the 20" tube. Did you get the latex glue stuff that's supposed to seal the tyre/tube interface. I didn't need to use it, but it might help in your case.
Why'd you take the tyre off to put the latex in?

Tony


I've just used a 20" tyre as a 'liner' over the rim strip (made up of insulating tape). The tyre sits too far away from the rubber 'liner' to make a seal. As far as I understand... I need to raise the base of the liner up a bit so that it makes a seal with the tyre. once this happens I shouldn't have a problem inflating, well, kind of.

I'll give it a bash tonight with the original rim strip over the insulating tape, if that doesn't work, I suspect I'll need some tape with a raised profile (draft excluder tape?) that should raise it up to make a seal.

If it doesn's work, I'll be after other suggestions....!

Cheers
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Gareth
post Feb 7 2008, 07:06 PM
Post #22


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QUOTE(*Neb* @ Feb 7 2008, 02:31 PM) *
I've just used a 20" tyre as a 'liner' over the rim strip (made up of insulating tape). The tyre sits too far away from the rubber 'liner' to make a seal. As far as I understand... I need to raise the base of the liner up a bit so that it makes a seal with the tyre. once this happens I shouldn't have a problem inflating, well, kind of.

I'll give it a bash tonight with the original rim strip over the insulating tape, if that doesn't work, I suspect I'll need some tape with a raised profile (draft excluder tape?) that should raise it up to make a seal.

If it doesn's work, I'll be after other suggestions....!

Cheers

Maplin do foam tape (double sided) that works well to take up a little space if your tyres are a slack fit. put a wrap of electrical tape over the top of it and then you only have to do it once, plus it's reversible if you change to a tyre that's a tight fit.

QUOTE
if I had a loose tyre I would use the other tip I posted which is to wrap some double sided foam tape around the rim over a single wrap of insulating tape and then cover that with a double wrap of insulating tape covering the whole rim bed. This only takes a couple of minutes and what it does is make the tyre a snug fit so that it inflates easily. If you change to a tighter tyre the insulating tape easily strips off taking the foam tape with it and you can go back to the insulating tape alone. If you carry on using the same tyres you're sorted.


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*Neb*
post Feb 7 2008, 10:45 PM
Post #23


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QUOTE(Gareth @ Feb 7 2008, 07:06 PM) *
Maplin do foam tape (double sided) that works well to take up a little space if your tyres are a slack fit. put a wrap of electrical tape over the top of it and then you only have to do it once, plus it's reversible if you change to a tyre that's a tight fit.


I bought some draft excluder from focus, it did the trick perfectly! the tyre was a bit of a pain to fit, but once they were on, I didn't even need to use soapy water to help the seal, I just pumped slowly with one hand and the tyre popped into place. nice!

I've left the tyres inflated but with no sealant in for the next day or two and I'll add the sealant and do all the business with that on saturday with a hangover. I've a wee 100ml squirty bottle that fits perfectly into the valve stem, so it should be ideal for adding the sealant without removing the tyre.

Thanks for all the help, that seems to be it sorted! I'll be aiming for a puncture on the next few rides just to confirm it works!!

This DIY lark is so much cheaper and more rewarding than buying the commercial stuff. I'm a convert!
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Gareth
post Feb 7 2008, 11:12 PM
Post #24


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QUOTE
This DIY lark is so much cheaper and more rewarding than buying the commercial stuff. I'm a convert!

Riders seem to divide in to those who have a good experience first time and love it and those who have a bad one and give up! It all depends what tyres you choose and how well they fit your rims. I've had way less punctures with Ghetto and the two I have had I've fixed without removing the wheel (This includes uplift days like the one at Moelfre where the downhillers were puncturing huge tyres/tubes doing the same stuff). For the first time ever I've worn tyres right down without removing them from the rim! How cool is that? stupidlyhappy.gif


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1gearnoidea
post Feb 8 2008, 11:34 AM
Post #25


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i agree with gareth....im 3 months in on tubeless and no punctures yet stupidlyhappy.gif ..thats it im doomed for weekend now mellow.gif rolleyes.gif


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Jarl
post Feb 8 2008, 05:33 PM
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When I made my first wheel tubeless, I stuck a nail in it (just to be sure it worked!). It worked, no punctures since smile.gif


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*Neb*
post Feb 9 2008, 04:02 PM
Post #27


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QUOTE(Jarl @ Feb 8 2008, 05:33 PM) *
When I made my first wheel tubeless, I stuck a nail in it (just to be sure it worked!). It worked, no punctures since smile.gif


I've put sealant in both my wheels now and the rear tyre seems to be fine. The front one however is refusing to hold its air. The other problem is that I put the wheel down on the garage floor after shaking it (as per stans video) and there was a thorn on the floor thats put a nice little hole in the side wall of the tyre. The sealant stopped it, but it keeps unplugging! whats the best course of action now? leave it overnight to see if the hole will mend? take the tyre off and plug it with a patch?

It brought up a question though, how does wheel milk (or stans, or diy) work?? I spilt some sealant on the table about 4 hours ago and its still liquid, it hasn't hardened up at all! Are they all like that? What makes it plug a hole in a tyre in a couple of seconds, but not harden up while completely exposed to air? hmm interesting! It knocks your confidence in it a little bit, when its still liquid after 4 hours....

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Gareth
post Feb 9 2008, 04:24 PM
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You could take the tyre off and patch it with a tubeless patch kit but I never use them.

I would plug the hole (from the outside without deflating) with a Weldtite Rapid Tubeless Repair Kit kit from Justridingalong.

You don't want Stan's to set in the way you're thinking, otherwise it wouldn't stay liquid in the tyre. What it does is 'clog' the hole and then it does set, strangely like blood. However as you have discovered Latex will not readily seal a hole in the sidewall where the tyre is thinnest. It seals very effectively in the tread area where the rubber tends to 'sprig back' if a thorn is removed. The relatively stretched sidewall has not done this in your case so a plug is required. The latex does at least usually slow down the air loss sufficiently to give you plenty of time to plug the hole before the tyre runs flat.


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Ibbo
post Feb 9 2008, 04:39 PM
Post #29


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Sorry to hijack the thread but:-
Is UST and Ghetto the same principal?I'm lost.
I've just bought a new Enduro SL Expert fitted with DT 4.2 rims and S-works Eskar tyres.According to the Spesh website its UST ready.The tyres a 2bliss compound,and can be run either way or something(the spesh server is down so i cant get all the info)I've always had misgivings about tubeless.Apart from weight are there really any advantages?


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Gareth
post Feb 9 2008, 07:13 PM
Post #30


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QUOTE
Sorry to hijack the thread but:-
Is UST and Ghetto the same principal?I'm lost.
I've just bought a new Enduro SL Expert fitted with DT 4.2 rims and S-works Eskar tyres.According to the Spesh website its UST ready.The tyres a 2bliss compound,and can be run either way or something(the spesh server is down so i cant get all the info)I've always had misgivings about tubeless.Apart from weight are there really any advantages?

UST and Ghetto are quite different.

UST (Universal System for Tubeless) is a standard developed by Mavic for rims and tyres that fit perfectly with no gaps and form an air tight seal. No Latex sealant is required and you should be able to inflate the tyre with a track pump.

Ghetto Tubeless is a DIY rim/tyre conversion which uses a stretched 20” inner tube as a rim strip going right over the rim walls and helping to form a good seal with standard or preferably ‘Tubeless Ready’ tyres. In addition to the rim strip Latex solution is used to help the seal and also plug any small (e.g. thorny holes) it can even seal the multitude of tiny tea bag like perforations in a non-tubeless tyre!.
UST is the easiest to set up but the tyres tend to run heavy and being quite thick are not as supple as they might be. You can (and I would) add sealant to UST tyres but it’s not required. UST is the big wallet way to tubeless but not in my opinion the best.
Ghetto on the other hand will happily convert your existing wheels and even tyres to tubeless in under an hour.

Tubeless Advantages:
Small punctures in the tread self seal
Medium punctures or those in the sidewall can be easily plugged on the trail without removing the wheel or deflating the tyre.
Pinch punctures are all but eliminated (at a reasonable pressure)
Ride is more supple and with slightly less rolling resistance (no inner tube to deform as the tyre rolls)

Tubeless Disadvantages:
A faff to set up (or a satisfying craft once you get up to speed)
Changing tyres is a messy business best avoided (Ghetto/UST with sealant. Ghetto can be run without sealant in some circumstances but I wouldn’t)
Some slow air loss with Ghetto non-tubeless ready tyres.


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wildrnes
post Feb 11 2008, 09:24 AM
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well i can get one nobby nic to go up no problems, but can i get the rear to go up

can i buggery...

need to find a garage with a high pressure hose (that works as my local one has just died....)
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Gareth
post Feb 11 2008, 10:33 AM
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It is possible to get a compressor at home that will do the job (and many other jobs) for as low as £50. I'm not suggesting that you have to have one only saying that you can get one this cheaply and they are great tools. Don't forget that the cheapest ones come without a tyre inflater trigger/gauge or long hose which would bring the total to £70. think.gif
Smaller compressors such as those which run from car lighter sockets are not up to the job. The one you want should have a tank and be at least 1.5HP. Example

If the tyre is a 'loose' fit did you try adding foam and electrical tape as in this thread?
If the tyre is new did you try 'shaping it up' by popping a tube in overnight at 60PSI?
Finaly some have had success with a tie strap (like those used to hold luggage or bikes on a car rack) around the circufrance of the tyre as this spreads the tyre beads for that momentary seal. think.gif


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1gearnoidea
post Feb 11 2008, 11:28 AM
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yeah like gareth says, me and glynn had to use a racthet strap to get my rear tyre to seal, as its an ideal way to spread the bead rolleyes.gif and ibbo id say go for it m8..feels alot better to me


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wildrnes
post Feb 11 2008, 01:09 PM
Post #34


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ok need to try the ratchet strap

it is annoying because the first time it seated perfectly

the missues doesn't seem happy with hers tho she thinks it feels heavy....
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Gareth
post Feb 11 2008, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE
the missues doesn't seem happy with hers tho she thinks it feels heavy....

A Ghetto setup shouldn't be heavy unless you've used genuine UST tyres (which have a lot of rubber in them) or overdone the Latex (you can go as low as 60mills). It is quite possible to get a lighter setup than with most inner tubes and certainly you will get less rolling resistance and less punctures. blink.gif


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bobosola
post Feb 11 2008, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE(Gareth @ Feb 9 2008, 07:13 PM) *
..helping to form a good seal with standard or preferably ‘Tubeless Ready’ tyres.

Apologies for jumping in on the thread, but I've started looking around in readiness for choosing some spring/summer XC tyres to have another go at tubeless after my Trailraker burp failure last year. I hear your advice that "tubeless ready" are best, but that particular term seems to be just a Bontrager thing, and I don't know whether they do a UK-friendly XC general purpose type of tyre? Or do other manufacturers do a "tubeless ready" equivalent?

It would be great to have a list of "known-good with ghetto" tyres.


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Ibbo
post Feb 11 2008, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE(bobosola @ Feb 11 2008, 09:19 PM) *
Apologies for jumping in on the thread, but I've started looking around in readiness for choosing some spring/summer XC tyres to have another go at tubeless after my Trailraker burp failure last year. I hear your advice that "tubeless ready" are best, but that particular term seems to be just a Bontrager thing, and I don't know whether they do a UK-friendly XC general purpose type of tyre? Or do other manufacturers do a "tubeless ready" equivalent?

It would be great to have a list of "known-good with ghetto" tyres.

I have Specialised Eskar Bobosola,2bliss ready heres the bumph quoted on their website
2BLISS MTB TIRES
There's a reason why our MTB pro team rides 2Bliss tires-they want a tire that can handle the low pressure they run (sometimes 25 psi) for durability and better traction, but they also want light weight. Specialized 2Bliss blends the best of both worlds. It's not your standard tubetype (TT), which is lightweight, but can fall short on puncture resistance and "burps" when used with sealant. And it's not your standard tubeless (UST) that reducespinch flats and the need for sealant, but often adds 200+ grams. 2Bliss is a whole new design that uses TT casing with a special UST bead, replacing the standard UST heavy backing with strategically placed rubber only around the bead. The result is a perfect tire for the discerning MTB rider: low pressure allowance, no burping and fewer grams than its forefathers.

Most of our MTB tires come in the revolutionary 2Bliss configuration, except for Sport models (DH, Armadillo, Armadillo Elite and 29" tires excluded); TT and UST are no more. If you want to run our 2Bliss with a tube, be our guest. Without a tube, just grab a batch of our AirLock® Pro sealant, and you're well on your way to a longer, better mountain ride, again and again.



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Gareth
post Feb 11 2008, 10:28 PM
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So 2Bliss is what Specialized are calling 'Tubeless Ready' (Bontrager's term) and therefore should be a good thing. I'm not sure we need a list of approved tyres, a list of poorly performing tyres would probably be shorter. I'm not against having a go though, Big Earls are fine and I'm sure you'll find that all of Specialized's 2Bliss tyres are too. They are right that most UST tyres are 200g too heavy, some of them quite a bit more! tongue.gif


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bobosola
post Feb 13 2008, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE(Gareth @ Feb 11 2008, 10:28 PM) *
So 2Bliss is what Specialized are calling 'Tubeless Ready' (Bontrager's term) and therefore should be a good thing.

These look interesting. I think the Eskar is too chunky for my XC stuff, but the Sauserwind Control 2Bliss looks worth a punt for me, but the bit about "whole new design that uses TT casing with a special UST bead" makes me think. Does this mean I need UST rims or can I go ghetto with them on ordinary rims? I'm still a bit confused about what I can mix and match think.gif


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Gareth
post Feb 13 2008, 10:43 PM
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Ghetto works with more tyres than any other system, although some commercial rim strips are good so long as they fit your rim (Ghetto fits any rim). So UST tyres will go Ghetto, it's just that in the past the UST standard made for a heavy tyre. It seems like Specialized are offering something inbetween which has the right bead for UST without the heavy casing the standard dictates. unsure.gif

Why not try just one tyre first, it's less of a risk and you can always run it just as a rear if you don't like it so much, it will wear fastest and you can try something else sooner.


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