Looking for some feedback from MTBers Options

[traceymac]

For me personally, I just see neigh on £1000 and think "STREWTH"

I don't know what exacly you offered but to pay such a sum for a weeks "hobbying"... well I just can't afford it.
If you then factor in entry fees and fuel to Scotland and perhaps a bevvy or two then the week would cost Way over £1000.

I'd love for you to be able to make a living from my chosen pass-time but I'd need to be spending a lot less to be honest.

I might be able to do a weekend (2 or 3 days) for £150 but that's about all I could justify to myself (and my belove'ed)

Just thought I'd add it up

Say:
£80 for fuel from N.Wales @ 40 mpg

£40 PPPN B & B
£15 PPPPD food and drink

so a guestimate of £55 per day = £330 for 6 nights

So not knowing the full set-up I'd ask the question to yourself... what is it you are offering for an extra £93 per day? (based on 6 night stay)

I guess some peeps on here go abroad for a week for a similar sum?
All the best,
Rod
'Course... my figures could be well out here cuz I haven't taken my socks off or I haven't factored in something else?????

Hi Rod
Thanks for taking the time to post on this, I really appreciate it. The business that put this package together currently focusses on fishing but they are very keen to expand into mountain biking because we have five of the 7stanes in the region. I'll pass this info on to them and I'm sure they'll take your feedback on board. You are not the only person who has said that a weekend would be more appealing so maybe they need to think about that option.

Have you had a look at the MBBN website at http://eat-sleep-ride.com? I'd love to hear what you think about it.

Give my regards to North Wales. I lived in Wrexham for four years and I love the area. Had great times in Llangollen and great chips in LLandudno.

I'd rather spend £900 getting me+bike out to the Alps!!
Last time we did it, the chalet cost us about £250/each, the flights were £140/ret and the transfer was 50eur. For 10-11 days.
I'm guessing that total spend for an Alps trip (beer+food not included) was much less than £900/person.

For me, it's not the money. It's the terrain. For £900 I want some amazing terrain. And if I can get cable-cars and chair-lifts as well, more's the better.

Also, I've worked in retail since '99, and I think the answer to this issue falls under the following golden rule of retail: Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay.
So, I'm guessing that costs were worked out, and that a half decent profit was added on top, and then the total sum was arrived at.
Well, sadly that number is too much above the estimate we prospective customers have in our heads.

I guess the question should be: What would you expect to pay for a week riding the 7stanes?
For me, the answer would be: £350-450 (depending on package, food+drink not included).
But, to be perfectly honest, I've got a buddy that lives 60secs from the trailhead at Dalbeattie!!
I travel up by train to Dumfries, and he comes and gets me, and I get free accommodation.
So, I'm afraid that no matter what the price/offer is, I'm out (as the Dragons say!)

Tip: Traceymac, you need to take your thirsty MTB'ers to the micro-brewery in Castle Douglas. I've never had a bad pint in there!

Hi Bazza
Thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate your feedback and the business involved will too. They currently focus on fishing hols and it would seem the needs of fishermen and mountain bikers are wildly different. I'm glad you've been up to the area, it's a beautiful part of the world and the trails are great. We're lobbying hard to get some decent facilities at Dalbeattie but in the current climate it might be a while before we make any progress.

Also pleased you are a Sulwath Brewery fan, I got married in the pump room there in September. They're members of the network and really good people. My personal favourite Sulwath tipple is the Galloway Gold, it's delicious. They've got a page on our website at http://eat-sleep-ride.com. If you've got a spare minute to check it out and let me know what you think of the site that would be great.

Hope you enjoy your rides next time you are in the area and thanks again for the advice.
Cheers, traceymac

Someone was asking the same question about the Welsh trail centres.
My general answer was directed at facilities/infrastructure and competing with resorts in main land Europe or even Canada.

First point would be cost, £890 seems a lot and you still need to travel there (6 hours from the Midlands).

Pretty sure the trip to the Alps/Chatel didn't cost that much
For a party of 8 travelling in two Vehicles.

Accomodation - £225 half board
Fuel/Tolls - £150
Chunnel - £ 50
6 day lift pass - £100
Food/beer - £240

Total - £765 I've rounded up a lot so could be even less

Awsome chalet, with bike storage and cleaning facilities.
Hot tub, BBQ, media area with wifi
Shuttle bus to lift complex
Massive variety of runs (DH, XC dh etc) at each resort and superb infrastructure.
Great weather

I think Austria/Salbbach the year before was even cheaper even with hotel accommodation.

Although the area has great trails I am not sure it has the same intrastructure as the alps.
I would probably be expecting at least 10 -14 day holiday for this price.

Hi Jes
Thanks for taking the time to post this feedback. I appreciate it and I'm sure the business involved will find it very useful. Transport costs are a killer for everyone just now and there's no sign of them coming down soon. The businesses I work with are working hard to improve the facilities for mountain bikers. They are all listed on the website at http://eat-sleep-ride.com. If you've got the time to have a look and let me know what you think I'd be grateful.
Thanks again for your time and interest.
traceymac

Yep thats expensive, but I think the transport might be something that pushes the price up - most of the visitors will have driven up & could manage their own travel making the cost less.
My riding trips away this year have been 10 days in the Alps (9 of us sharing travel/accom) for £460, a week in the Lake district (12 of us sharing) for £290 & a couple of three day trips to Wales for about £140 each

Hi Snaps
Thanks for the feeback, I'm sure the business will find it useful and I appreciate the help. The main issues seem to be cost and the length of the stay so we've clearly got some re-thinking to do.

I work with about 90 businesses in the area and we've developed a website aimed at mountain bikers - http://eat-sleep-rde.com. If you have the time I'd be grateful if you'd have a look and let me know what you think. We really wantt o make it as easy as possible for mountain bikers to find the services and accommodation they need if they come to the area to ride the 7stanes.
Cheers, traceymac

We usually visit the area a couple of times a year as a large group for 3 or 4 days at a time.

As most people do we sort ourselves out - book some B&B or self catering, drive ourselves, eat out at pubs or get take aways. This is obviously far cheaper than a fully organised package.

If you want to offer a package it must have something extra special to differentiate it from what people can organise themselves far cheaper. The extra must add some sort of "value" that will make people want to buy it.

Also remember that for most people biking is "a weekend away with the lads" (not being sexist - its just the way it is for the majority) and so needs to be on a tighter budget than the "family holiday" / "holiday with partner" / other committments away from the hobby.

Hi Pierre
I'm really grateful that you took the time to send me your feedback and I'll definitely pass it on to the business. They currently focus on fishing holidays and are looking to expand but obviously there's a bit of work to do to attract mountain bikers. Part of my job is to try and market the region as a destination for families as well as the hard core riders. If you have the time I'd be delighted if you could have a look at the Network website at http://eat-sleep-ride.com and let me know if you think we're on the right track.
Happy riding, traceymac

well. pretty good indication of feeling there I'd say?
Cost / value vs riding experience don't add tally and who has £900 to blow on themselves anyway? Especially if they can do it at 1/2 - 2/3 the cost.
It currently makes no fiancial sence to have what amounts to a taxi @ £90 a day. (from the info provided)

The more cynical amongst us might even think this was an attempt at advertising your venture, especially as you joined our group, left this and appear to have "done one"

However please come back and give me / us a further insight in to your business plans and details of what you are able to offer so peeps might proffer some suggestions for improvement.

Rod

Hi Rod
Me again. Sorry I've been incommunicado since joining. I've been off work for a few weeks but I'm back in the saddle and I really do appreciate all the comments you guys have taken the time to leave for me. The people I work with are a good bunch and they really do want to make sure that when mountain bikers come to the region we can offer them the accommodation and services they need to have the best time they can when they are here. I am new to the world of mountain biking and I am grateful for any help riders can give me so I can help the businesses. Hope you don't think I've used you and run off!
Cheers, traceymac

Targeting it at UK folks £890 is a lot of money, as all have said we can go to the Alps for a week for less.

When I have been north of the border for a ride it has usually been for three or four days over a weekend. Usually a couple of days around Dumfries then over to Peebles. Usually Camping or in the Pod things, to keep costs down.

However perhaps your focus should be on encouraging our continental neighbours to visit what Scotland has to offer.

Hello Saint
And thanks for your thoughts. There seems to be a common feeling that cost and length of stay are an issue and I will pass this on to the business so they can think again. I'm glad you've been up here and hope you've had fun. Have you checked out the Yurt and Roundhouse at Marthrown of Mabie? They're on the Network website at http://eat-sleep-ride.com and just a kick in the pants from the trailhead. I've stayed in the yurt and I can highly recommend it. There's also a hot tub and sauna to sooth your aches after a day of pedalling.

If you've got any comments on the website I'd be happy to hear them. The businesses I work with are really keen to make sure they provide the right accommodation and services to suit mountian bikers coming to the region.

I work part time so I can't devote much to potential overseas visitors but the new Community Interest Company are in talks with ferry companies etc to push the region as a great destination for our European neighbours and those from father afield.
Many thanks, traceymac

£890

Alps, uplifts, 100s of runs, great beer & food, prob better weather. And about the same tavel time too.

Or

Scotland, some uplifts, 1/2 the trails, midges, bound to rain, Same beer/food, crappy uk roads for 10 hours

About £600 then would be a serious contender.

Hi Martyn
Thanks for your comments - I'm sure you've noticed there are a couple of common threads and I'll pass them on to the business so they can think again. I don't know if you've ridden the 7stanes but the businesses I work with are very keen to make sure they provide the accommodation, food and services that mountain bikers want. If you have the time I'd appreciate your thoughts on our website - all feedback gratefully received.
Cheers, traceymac

Hi everyone,
Sorry I've been MIA since joining, been off sick but I'm back in the saddle and getting caught up with everything that's piled up. I am really grateful that so many of you took the time to give me your feedback.

I've replied personally to some of you but I work part time so I'm limited but I am thankful to all of you for your comments. The common themes seem to be that the trip is too long and too expensive, particularly when compared to comparable trips to the Alps. I have passed all your comments on to the business involved. They currently offer fishing trips but it is clear that the needs of fishermen and mountain bikers are very different and I'm sure they'll take that on board.

The businesses I work with are very keen to make sure that when mountain bikers come here they get the kind of services they need so if any of you has the time to look at our website and share your thoughts that would be very much appreicated.

Please accept my apologies for being invisible for so long, I'll do my best to keep up to date with everyone who offers their help.
Thanks again, traceymac

Hi Kerr
Sorry I've been MIA since joining, been off sick but I'm back in the saddle and getting caught up with everything that's piled up. I am really grateful that so many of you took the time to give me your feedback and I'm sorry if I have offended you by my absence.

The businesses I work with really want to offer the best services they can to mountain bikers when they come here and I want to be able to advise them as well as I can so the feedback here is very valuable to me. Again, please accept my apologies for any offence caused.
Thanks again, traceymac

Link removed Kerr. Just negative press unless they really are interested in what we think.

Hi Doug
I seem to have upset the forum members with my absence and I want to assure you I have no ulterior motive. I work with around 90 businesses in Dumfries and Galloway and they all want to make sure that mountain bikers who come here have the best possible time they can. It's my job to advise them how to do that and in order to be able to do that I need to know what you guys need from a mountain biking break in Dumfries and Galloway. I am genuinely grateful for the feedback the forum members have given me and I am currently collating the information for the business.

Please accept my apologies for any offence I have caused. I have been off work ill and I work part time but I will do my best to keep up to date with everyone who is good enough to offer me their help.
Best wishes, traceymac

[Rod]

Thanks for returning to the fold

Good to hear from you again and gain a further insight as to what was proposed and your involvement.

It's good to see you are taking comments on board for concideration and I wish you well.

As for ideas... get some "off-peste" riding on board with marked maps or offering a guide in combination with a hotel / camping / what ever type of accomodation you choose to offer (with safe lock-ups for bikes). Also perhaps a pick-up, drop off pick-up, drop off service?

Of course what ever is offered it has to be balanced with a need to make an acceptable profit and offer the punter something they want at a price they feel they are getting something they couldn't do or be bothered to do for themselves, combining it with value for money. (now that's the difficult part! Good luck)

Rod

[traceymac]

Thanks for returning to the fold

Good to hear from you again and gain a further insight as to what was proposed and your involvement.

It's good to see you are taking comments on board for concideration and I wish you well.

As for ideas... get some "off-peste" riding on board with marked maps or offering a guide in combination with a hotel / camping / what ever type of accomodation you choose to offer (with safe lock-ups for bikes). Also perhaps a pick-up, drop off pick-up, drop off service?

Of course what ever is offered it has to be balanced with a need to make an acceptable profit and offer the punter something they want at a price they feel they are getting something they couldn't do or be bothered to do for themselves, combining it with value for money. (now that's the difficult part! Good luck)

Rod

Delighted to be back and thanks again for your additional suggestions. My role is complicated by the fact that I represent the businesses who are obviously out to make a profit. In their defence they all do want to make sure they offer the best service they can and since this project started many of them have added secure bike stores, bike washes, drying rooms and load of other services bikers wanted. The 7stanes are a great asset to the region - even though we've only got five of them - and since they were developed the area has without doubt benefitted from an increase in visitors which was badly needed, particularly in the aftermath of F&M disease.

The scenery here is great and ideal for off-piste riding but Forestry Commission Scotland are very against it and this group is part funded by them so we are unable to promote it as an activity. We've got a couple of businesses in the area run by experienced riders who plan holidays for people who want to go off the beaten track and they have excellent reputations. A couple of the businesses are looking at investment in a trailer which could transport bikes for pick up and drop off at trails and I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear it is a service bikers would find useful in this area. I'll also keep you posted with any progress.

I work with around 80 tourism businesses so I need all the help and luck I can get. I'm part time and - like everyone else - have a mountain of stuff to do every day but I'll be on when I can.
thanks again
T

[traceymac]

Hi everyone,
Sorry I've been MIA since joining, been off sick but I'm back in the saddle and getting caught up with everything that's piled up. I am really grateful that so many of you took the time to give me your feedback.

I've replied personally to some of you but I work part time so I'm limited but I am thankful to all of you for your comments. The common themes seem to be that the trip is too long and too expensive, particularly when compared to comparable trips to the Alps. I have passed all your comments on to the business involved. They currently offer fishing trips but it is clear that the needs of fishermen and mountain bikers are very different and I'm sure they'll take that on board.

The businesses I work with are very keen to make sure that when mountain bikers come here they get the kind of services they need so if any of you has the time to look at our website and share your thoughts that would be very much appreicated.

Please accept my apologies for being invisible for so long, I'll do my best to keep up to date with everyone who offers their help.
Thanks again, traceymac

[Rod]

AFAIC I'm happy that you came back to answer and comment queries raised and gave explanations to many individuals.

So I'm happy to have participated in your questions and to have read repliesand answers submitted by others and yourself.

Good luck with the project.

Rod

[Jambalaya]

I'm of the "too long too expensive" view also.

As for the need of fishermen and mountain bikers being different. That depends totally on the type of fishing you are talking about. Top of the line trout and salmon game fishing isn't he same demographic as the guy by the local lake. I know some game fishermen who'd spend £900 or more a day for he best spots and that's less than they spend on their shooting. They don't ride mountain bikes.